02:07
Erica Mattison
Welcome, Chuck. All right, we gotta get Chuck unmuted.
02:26
Chuck Spidell
Can you hear me now? Yeah.
02:28
Erica Mattison
Yes. Can you hear me now? Said no one ever let me turn my.
02:33
Chuck Spidell
Stop my video.
02:34
Erica Mattison
Okay.
02:34
Chuck Spidell
Okay. There we go.
02:35
Erica Mattison
All right, good. So I'm walking in my local park and I'm walking past a bunny rabbit who's now hopping away. How about you, Chuck?
02:44
Chuck Spidell
I am enjoying my camping and I just made myself some yummy lunch and cleaning up, enjoying the. The sights and the smells and the sounds. All the birds in the coast in the background, and there's nobody here, so it's quiet. It's really nice.
03:02
Erica Mattison
Awesome.
03:03
Chuck Spidell
Very peaceful.
03:05
Erica Mattison
Great. Okay. Well, we both found some nice environments for ourselves for this walk and talk. So what's going on in your business these days?
03:18
Chuck Spidell
Which one?
03:21
Erica Mattison
Well, whichever one you'd like to share about or whichever ones.
03:27
Chuck Spidell
Well, the one that is with a lot of stuff that is going on is the pitch and then business. And that's the one. It's all about coastal inspired kind of fasting, then vibish products for people and their pets. But I've also kind of learned that from experimenting on social media posts that a lot of my audience loves my nature photography out here in the Oregon coast. So I'm leaning really heavily in on that and gonna try to get my photographic galleries all on the coast.
04:10
Erica Mattison
Okay. Very nice. So you're finding ways to integrate your photography skills and your love of nature with your entrepreneurial life and the. The travel that you're doing.
04:28
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, it's really cool. I mean, I think we've had conversations about this before and, like, it's the importance of pivoting in businesses. And I think that, like, I'm definitely going through that right now. You know, like, I. I have had a pet home and pet sitting in business for the last four years, and I'm. I'm trying to do that out here and not getting a ton of interest in it yet. But what I'm finding is that every time I post my photography in different Facebook groups and then on my Instagram account for Pooch and Zen, that people are just really resonating with it. And I'm just like, well, let's lean into that because, you know, that's what the audience. That's what the market is saying we want more of that.
05:09
Chuck Spidell
So I'm going to give it to them and I'm going to have fun doing it.
05:13
Erica Mattison
Awesome. Okay, so what I'm hearing is as a business owner, you're listening to the marketplace, you're honing in on your ideal clients. You're figuring out what they need, what they pay attention to, and it sounds like you're adapting your services and your products accordingly so you can really meet your target clients where they are.
05:40
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, exactly. And I. I feel like in the past, I have probably done a little bit of the opposite where I'm like, well, here's where I'm at. Like, I want you to meet me here. And I'm like, well, I'm on the road. I'm traveling, meeting other people that are traveling. And when I'm doing some, you know, camping at state parks and meeting the same kind of audience, and I just keep seeing this overlap and having similar conversations and people. And so it's like, yeah, I was like, I think I need to change gears and focus on this because it's what people are liking, you know, and I want to meet people where they're at.
06:17
Erica Mattison
Yeah. And I'm hearing that it's important to you to. To meet your clients where they are and at the same time to really enjoy the work that you're doing and so finding that overlap between their needs and your skills, but also your interests or your desires.
06:36
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, exactly. I think a lot of people go into business, like, you know, there's that cliche thing like, do follow your passion. And. And I don't know. I'm not totally sure I really agree with that statement anymore. What I. What I feel like, what I like, what resonates with me as a human being, a business owner. It's like, do what makes you happy first, and the. The money part will follow. Just. Just like, focus on the thing that you're really into right now. So, you know, like, yeah, I'm a. I'm. I am a home and pet sitter. I have been doing that for the past four years, But I've also been doing photography pretty much most of my life since I was, like, in high school. And I've never stated that I'm a professional photographer, but I might as well be, you know, so.
07:25
Chuck Spidell
Sure, I'll lean into it.
07:27
Erica Mattison
Yeah, no, this. This brings up a really interesting topic around title, Right? So not only our official job title, but the titles that we assign. Assign to ourselves, whether the words are in our actual job title in writing or not. So there's, you know, how do you define yourself, Right? Do you define yourself as a photographer or something else? Or a photographer and something else. And it's. It's interesting. But it's interesting, right? Because it's. It's not like you know, yes. In certain areas, either you're a doctor or you're not. Right. It's pretty clear cut. But with other spaces, like, are you an artist, are you a writer, are you a designer, are you a coach? Right. Et cetera, et cetera, there are a lot of spaces where, yes, sure, there are certifications and so forth in areas like coaching.
08:28
Erica Mattison
But my point being, a lot of how we think of ourselves and what do we call ourselves is going to impact how we show up and what we give ourselves permission to pursue.
08:50
Chuck Spidell
Yep, yep. Yeah, it's the. I think what it is like, what I'm finding, it's like your happiness level is directly related to your productivity level and business and trusting your gut and listening to your gut and being open to possibility and change and being willing to take the risk of pivoting because even if you don't know if it's going to work on the other side, because honestly, couldn't we say I could do all this and my photography could totally fail and no one will buy me stuff, which obviously it's not going to happen, but you know what I'm saying, I could go, yeah, I'll just not do it because I'm not a quote unquote professional photographer. But I just don't like to label myself that.
09:46
Chuck Spidell
But I, I mean, with my skill set, I've been doing it for so long that, yeah, I am a professional charter. I just don't like to use the title of that. I would say I'm more of like a. The creative person, you know.
10:03
Erica Mattison
Yeah, the thing around titles is something I'm very interested in. So we'll definitely come back to this in later conversations. Yeah, you just dropped so much knowledge there. I'm trying to remember where to even start in terms of reacting. But you know what, like, what I took away from what you said a moment ago is that you are describing something that sounds very dynamic. Like as a business person, you know, it's this kind of needing to be looking at data and also needing to be intuitive, needing to trust yourself and believe in your ability to make sound decisions.
10:47
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, yeah, 100%. I think it is that trust. It's like you need to trust that, like wherever, what direction, whichever direction you're going to pivot, that you know that you're, you know, you're going to come out on the other side, hopefully in a positive way. And, and then if you're not, you can just pivot Again, Right, so it's like, Right, try it out. And also, if you like it, this.
11:13
Erica Mattison
This openness to experimentation that I'm hearing you talk about. You know, you mentioned a moment ago you could try to sell all this photography and it could go nowhere and not make any money. And it depends on what your definition of success is. Right. Because if the entire aim is to make money, then that's one thing. But if making money is one of your intended byproducts, then it's not the entire marker of success. It's one measure of success. And so how do you expand your definition of success so that, yes, revenue or profit can be measures in terms of what makes something successful, but what are other measures that are not monetary, financial, economic?
12:07
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, I would say, like, for me, it's not. Yeah, I mean, unlike anyone else, I would love to make money, but, like, it's more about the journey and the challenges than the problem solving that goes along with it. I love solving problems. And being a business owner of multiple businesses is like, you're constantly solving problems and you have new scenarios that you sort of get put into. And, and I think it's like that process of like, learning what's working, what's not, what makes me happy, what doesn't make me happy. I. That is the most fulfilling part of it all. And, and I really like with the photography, like, I love this idea of, like, showing people these beautiful, like, untouched, wild locations here in the Oregon coast that they can go visit it. It's not just for me, it's for them.
13:07
Chuck Spidell
And, and I like this idea of sharing my, like a personal story as opposed to like a quote unquote brand, because, you know, the push and then the way it's set up, like that whole business is set up to be like a national, international brand. But I have purposely chosen not to position it that way. I'm positioning it more like it's. Follow me on my journey. As I travel the Oregon coast, buy some of my products. If they resonate with you, and I want to share the wealth of the journey that I'm on. I want you as a audience member to see what I'm seeing, see my life from a POV perspective. And if that resonates with you, yeah, support me, you know, buy my products. But, like, it's not an expectation, you know, not the reason why I'm doing it.
14:03
Erica Mattison
I mean, it sounds like you're looking for, you know, work that feels aligned with your interests, your values, your priorities, your skills. And that you're open to experimentation, seeing what works, pivoting when necessary, and that looking to connect with clients who can relate to what you're putting out there into the world, whether it's on social media or otherwise, in person, in the communities where you are. But that's really what I'm thinking about. Based on what you've shared so far, Chuck.
14:47
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, I think that's. That's accurate, you know, and I, you know, I wrote this. I have these Zen quotes that I create on push and Zen on. On the website, on Instagram and Facebook. And one of the ones that this conversation reminds me of that I came up with is take risks if you want to grow. Take more risks if you want to grow faster. And I feel like that is a big part of, like, what I'm personally doing in my life right now, because all the travel stuff and all of the business stuff, like, there's a lot of uncertainty, there's a lot of unknowns. I'm like. But the way to push through them is to take that risk because you're. You're going to find out whether or not you're going to come out on the other side. Right.
15:37
Chuck Spidell
So it's this idea of, like, you might be scared to do something as simple as post on social media because you don't know how you're gonna. What kind of reactions you're gonna get, if you're gonna get any at all. And so my advice is just do it. Like, try it out. Try this out. This doesn't work. Recognize it and try something out. Keep trying it out and keep iterating until you land on something and pay attention to the patterns. Like, pay attention to, like, where people are. Are resonating with you. And, and then you. And then it's easier for you to hone in on that pivot you just made, and you can kind of stay there for a little while. You know.
16:21
Erica Mattison
That'S some great marketing guidance right there. It sounds like it's necessary to be nimble and, you know, just ready to pivot so that your message is resonating so that it's timely and it's also reaching the right people who need to receive that message.
16:43
Chuck Spidell
Yeah. And I think it's also important to not make assumptions about your audience before you even start this. This kind of adventure and just like, just be really open to things, you know, because when you're open, I think that's where the possibility factor really comes in. Like, if you're just like, okay, for example, my plan was to move from Portland to the coast initially was to run my home and pet sitting business with pooch and then on the side. And then once I got out here and I've done some marketing posts, I've realized that is a different kind of business because there's a lot of trust involved and so people don't necessarily, they're not going to initially want to hire you because they don't know you're not part of the community. And I've lear.
17:36
Chuck Spidell
But I've also learned that I am just loving the doing my sunset photography and all these amazing geological prehistoric locations on the Oregon coast. And I'm like, I want to do that. That's fun. I'm, I'm loving it. I'm happy. I mean, I get to go, I get to go for a walk and take pictures of these beautiful sunsets and then share them with the world. I mean, and if you make money doing it, that's great too, you know, But I just love the idea of like doing something that makes me happy and if I make a little money on the side, that's great.
18:17
Erica Mattison
Yeah, that's such a mindset shift for a lot of people. Right. So that notion that, oh, my work can bring me joy, I don't have to wait until the work day is over to really begin enjoying my life. That whether you work for yourself or not, there are certainly strategies and practices that can help make it so that you don't dread your work and it doesn't burn you out. So, you know, those are just a couple thoughts based on what you said. What else is coming up for you?
19:01
Chuck Spidell
Well, and the other thing is like, you know, if you're not a small business owner yet and you're working for someone else, you can apply these same principles to that same situation. Because you can do something like this, like your passion project, your whatever makes you happy on the side when you're not working. So when you get off work, then you can do that thing that it is that you love to do. And, and just remember, keep in the back of your mind, like, maybe there is an opportunity to make it into a business on the side. And that way you don't have that pressure of like quitting your job, going all in starting a business, you can kind of do both and see which one you enjoy more. And then you can do the same thing.
19:56
Erica Mattison
Right.
19:56
Chuck Spidell
And you can pivot you can quit that job, definitely, if that's making you happy.
20:03
Erica Mattison
Yeah. So I've have worked with a number of clients who have done what you're describing, Chuck. And you know, it's interesting. Many of them also found ways to work in their strengths and their interests into their role within their organization. And it, you know, it took some imagining and some strategizing and sometimes some advocating. But many people have examples of how they were able to work in more of what they loved and what they're good at into their existing job.
20:47
Chuck Spidell
Yep, exactly. And I think another strong component, we've talked about this before, is visioning. The whole visioning process, like visioning yourself where you want to be at as opposed to where you're at right now. And like, when you get that mindset shifting going, like when you've got that side project that you're really excited about, like, it's just gonna fuel the fire and you're just gonna want to go all in on it. And I've been there. Like, I, I used to work in the retail industry and I, I remember once I worked for Olive Garden. I was a of a host. Didn't really like the job. It was to make money because that was when I was in my 20s and. But there was another part of me that, like, I love design, graphic design.
21:40
Chuck Spidell
I was really into getting into logo design and art creativity. And so what I would do is I would just like, whenever I had sort of downtime from that job, breaks or whatever, and things were slow at the door. Cause I would just literally stand there and hold the door open for people. That was my job. I would just greet people, be nice and give people breadsticks and stuff. But what I started doing is I started sketching on a notepad. And every time I had this spare moment, it was like I would just do that. And it was almost like every time I did that every day over a course of like months, I started to realize, hey, like, maybe there is something here. It's this art stuff that I'm doing, this sketching kind of stuff. So that's what I'm saying.
22:27
Chuck Spidell
Like, that's how you can apply it to just a regular job is like, take whatever spare time you have to do the thing that really resonates you and makes you happy. And you'll create energy to do it. Because you may say, oh, I'm going to be tired of me, drained for my job, not going to want to do anything else. Like no, like, once you start, you'll. You'll see, you know. And it also reminds me of, like, when I work on the Puch and Zen website. I've already been there with the products where originally my goal was to maybe make three to five products per day. Well, I've been working on that website for, I think, about two months now. And last night I was able to create six products in about two hours. So.
23:14
Chuck Spidell
And it's that repetition of, like, doing something over and over again, getting better at what you do. I think that really helps, too. If you're seeking kind of some kind of a pivot. It's got. It's this concept of, like, exercise, that part of your brain that is seeking this other path in life, which I.
23:38
Erica Mattison
Like to call so many. So many now, so many thoughts. Okay, Chasing. Say it again, Chuck.
23:45
Chuck Spidell
I call it tasting your now. Like, chasing your. Your present moment, the you that you want to become, in a way.
23:55
Erica Mattison
Okay, beautiful. So we have this concept around really delving in, really getting to know something that you're interested in and letting yourself feel curious about it and explore it. And then I'm hearing this story that I'd actually never heard you tell before. It was so interesting about working at Olive Garden and finding that you were not stimulated by that job, but that you were able to do some sketching and that's what you would. That was your go to activity. And so reflecting on that experience now, you're able to recognize that, the thing that I was really gravitating toward, the thing that was keeping me kind of energized, was this activity that I just decided to do and then enjoyed and then kept doing. So how can we be looking for those examples in our own lives?
25:01
Erica Mattison
Like, I have examples as well of, you know, as you were sharing that story, I thought of similar situations I've been in where, for instance, I was working as a concierge service professional at a call center in Boston soon after graduating with my degree in psychology. And it was a tough market. This was not the job that I had envisioned getting upon graduating, but it had aspects that I was interested in. So I took the job. And what I discovered was that there was the opportunity to use some of my language skills for communicating because we would be contacting hotels and restaurants and so forth all over the world, in Italy and France and beyond. And I. I knew a little French and I knew a little Italian, and so I. This was before the days of Google Translate and things like that.
26:04
Erica Mattison
And so were doing things in a different manner than how we do them today. And I was able to take the initiative at the company to basically put together some frequently used phrases to make dinner reservations in Italian and so forth on behalf of our clients. And so that was not in my job description, but I took the initiative to work on that because I enjoy languages, travel, learning about different cultures and so forth. And so where can you look at your own life and your own career and identify moments where you started some side project and you know, whether that ended up turning into your full time role or not. What can you, what can you learn about yourself? How can you reflect on that and generate some insights that can help you determine what direction to go in next?
27:10
Chuck Spidell
Yep. Yeah. And I actually, to further support that notion, I actually also, when I lived in Santa Cruz, California, I worked for a company that made synthesizers for a living. So I was like on an assembly line. So it was very like repetitive, kind of monotonous, boring work. But it's a, you know, same thing those my young days and same thing there. Like when I had downtime from the assembly line, I had my little sketchbook get it out and I would just design stuff. I would sketch out logos for big companies. So. And then when I went to college, guess what the first course was that I took? Graphic and web design. That was what I took. And then I ended up taking all of those skill sets from that one job of all of garden where it all started.
28:11
Chuck Spidell
And I started my own design business called Elucio. And I also worked for subcontracted with local companies in the Santa Cruz area and provided graphic and web design services professionally, even though I wasn't even a professional. I just did it. But say, I'm saying like you're, you know, you have different skill sets that you build and nourish and you might not even realize it earlier in life and you care and those skill sets that you gain from those jobs or whatever you're doing, it could even be volunteering. You're going to utilize that in your life later in life. You just don't realize it.
28:58
Erica Mattison
Totally, totally. And I mean we could, you and I could go back and forth and back and forth with examples of this. I mean another one that comes to mind for me is the area of communications, the area of advocacy or marketing, and the area of psychology. Those three areas I have been, you know, those have been circulating in my life since I was around 12 years old and. Right. So communications, things around journalism, reporting as a student journalist and so forth. And then progressing through my career. Right. As of a few years ago, serving as the strategic director of communications or communications. Right. So having communications in my title actually for the first time, like when I'm well into my career. But that went way back to things I was doing as a youth in sixth grade, as a student journalist.
30:07
Erica Mattison
So, you know, these threads, right? These things that if you can look at what were you interested in when you were around 8 to 10 years old, even, you know, a little bit older, but, you know, kind of in that 8 to 12 year old range, what were you really interested in? It can be very telling. Right. So I mentioned communications, also psychology. I ended up majoring in psychology. I'm now a coach, which is heavily tied in with psychology. And I was 12 years old. The part of the bookstore I would go to was typically the personal growth, self improvement, whatever you want to call it, type of section of books going way back until, you know, around I was maybe 12 years old.
31:03
Erica Mattison
So the fact that I published my first book last year, clarifying what matters, creating direction for your career, it makes sense when I look back at what were my interests back then. And then the same can be said for the. You know, being a business owner involves a lot of marketing and advocacy. And previously I worked as an environmental protection lobbyist for a statewide nonprofit. And so that was about marketing, building relationships and so forth. Running a business is not all that different from the skills that are involved in that. And so it's really this creation of these through lines, this identification of these through lines that can help us make sense of our own stories, which is also important because once we make sense of them ourselves, we can more easily and effectively share them with others.
32:10
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, that's great. I love the way you presented that. Yeah, it's like, I think it's acknowledging your past to. To feel your present and your future.
32:25
Erica Mattison
Absolutely. There's an African phrase, Sankofa, which I learned from my former colleague at Boston University, Christopher Robinson. And Sankofa is about looking back, to move forward. And so it's the. The image for it is like a bird with its head turned. And so it's this, you know, notion around being adaptable, being able to pivot and not just be caught in the past and not only be focused on the future, but to look to the past to inform your future and to move forward. So that. That's what comes up for me when you say that, Chuck.
33:13
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, yeah. And I think also it's just the fear the imposter Syndrome. Like, I think that's what can keep people from chasing that dream. Is that, you know, like what I just said. Like, I'm sure as I put my stuff out here in the Oregon coast, there'll be some people that are, that do call themselves professional photographers. They may either think that I'm not, quote unquote, a professional photographer. And I just, I don't really care about it. And I think what's important is to not associate those titles with who you are. And it's, and it's about like, it's what you do and that again, like the thing that makes you happy, lean in on that. And then the whole imposter syndrome part will just kind of slowly, you know, fade away as you keep practicing and putting yourself out there into the world.
34:11
Chuck Spidell
Because I've been there. I've been there too, even with my photography post. And, you know, as of last night, I felt like I really have a good methodology of how I think I'm going to start promoting my posts in the future. I have a format and it's obviously resonating with people. So I'm just going to keep doing that, you know, and it's like, and I think it's. The whole imposter syndrome can be something that some people have to tackle when they're going through this whole life, business life. It's intimidating. Challenge. Well, maybe not a challenge. Let's call it an adventure. That's what it really is.
34:44
Erica Mattison
Sure. So fear can definitely hold a lot of people back from something that feels unstable, uncertain, feels like it might fail. I would urge people to think about what failure means and really come up with a definition of that. And then also consider that the present and the future that you are assuming are stable and secure may not be actually all that stable and secure. So be careful when you're doing your analysis of things, how much you are labeling something as stable and secure when it may not actually be. And that's going to impact your risk assessment. You know, earlier you were talking, Chuck, about basically your tolerance for risk. And I've been doing some learning recently about this topic, risk tolerance.
35:44
Erica Mattison
And some people have a higher risk tolerance than others, and there are a variety of reasons for that, but it's kind of, you know, I think, valuable to get a sense of what your own risk tolerance is, and that's going to need to factor into your decisions. What I would also say is that if you want to minimize your risk, one of the best ways you can do that is by diversifying your income streams and that can take a variety of different forms, whether that's having a full time job and having a side business or having a portfolio career where you have a few different part time jobs and some contract work.
36:31
Erica Mattison
Lots of different ways to do this, but if you really care about being stable and secure, one of the best things you can do is make sure that all of your resources are not dependent one source. If that one source goes away, then you find yourself up a creek.
36:52
Chuck Spidell
Yeah, I can totally relate to that, resonate with that. And in fact that's just like I've always had that sort of philosophy in life more recently I feel like in the last five, 10 years. And just I always believe it's important to have multiple streams of revenue coming from different places. And part of it is like diversification and also it's like same thing related to your happiness. Like, well, if I'm not feeling like doing some photography, I can go and take care of people's pets in their homes. If not feeling like doing that, I could maybe. We mentioned I might want to go work for a nursery.
37:36
Chuck Spidell
So it's like this idea that you could have three different sources of income and if one of them is not producing the way you want it to yet, because it's always a yet question, you can lean in on that other, those other income sources, then you don't have that pressure of like, well, I really want to start this business but the money factor is where I'm getting stuck. So I'm hearing don't let that be a constraint.
38:05
Erica Mattison
I'm hearing that you're getting diversification in revenue but also in terms of different forms of stimulation of getting to tap into your skills and your interests because you're pivoting from, you know, wearing one hat to another when you're a business owner and when you have different lines of products and or services, you know, it involves like different skill sets, different kinds of messaging and so you're constantly having to be shifting and adapting. So that's what I'm taking away from what you just shared.
38:38
Chuck Spidell
Yep, yep. And, and that's going to go with your marketing too. Because for example, with Puch and Sen, the big difference with that is that when I was doing my home and pet sitting business in Portland, it was a pet boarding service and all of the marketing was pretty much 100% online. It was all on two Facebook local groups where every time I posted I literally got clients from that. And that was four years ago. And then this Last year the whole landscape shifted on its own with the Internet and social media and meta changing their algorithms. And now it's more like people would come to that business for using Google searches. Like I would say like 90, 95% of the business with that business still in Portland is all Google searches.
39:27
Chuck Spidell
But with what I'm doing now with like Putin's on, it's that the market is different out here in the coast where it's all very kind of old school. Everything moves slower. So it's all like business cards, postcards, print ads, posters, going door to business owners and reaching face to face interaction with people, going to community events, you know, so that's where like things have really shifted for me and I recognize that. And, and now wait, it's like, wait.
39:59
Erica Mattison
You can't just market to everybody the same.
40:04
Chuck Spidell
No, no, you cannot. You got to do both online and offline. And that's what I've like learned that. And, and you learn it by doing it. You know, you're not going to know until you start, until you try, until you take that first step, until you take that step into that unknown uncertainty. And that's gonna, that's how you're gonna get past all the risk tall. You're, you're gonna find out what your tolerance is for risk when you start doing that part of it, typically with the business is the marketing part of it or you can have someone else do it.
40:41
Erica Mattison
So many options. Okay, so we're going to start to wind down the conversation. We've covered so much in this chat. We've talked about marketing, we've talked about understanding your clients needs, we have talked about pivoting, being adaptable. Chuck, what am I missing?
41:00
Chuck Spidell
I think that's all of it. I think the underlying theme and I think the thing for everyone to really remember is that like you create and develop these skill sets that are almost like unknown since childhood. And it's almost like, yeah, you got to go back and like look at what you used to be into as a child because chances are those things that you were into as a child, you're probably still into those things now. And, and I think it's important to look at that past and it's really going to help you with where you want to go, you know, now that you're, whatever age you are and acknowledge it and recognize it and appreciate it because you just never know where it's going to take you.
41:50
Chuck Spidell
You know, I mean, you asked me five years from now, like, that I would have be living out in the Oregon coast, traveling the Oregon coast professionally. I would never even envision that my life would be this way. But. But it is this way because I. I have been following that. I'm ch. Like I said, I'm chasing my now. I'm chasing the present moment, and this is what I like doing now. But I've always enjoyed creativity of some form since childhood. And I used to do the same thing. I used to draw. I used to draw, like, tanks and airplanes and stuff, and build model cars. And so I think that's where the creativity component comes in for me. And so that's what I'm saying, like, with the audience.
42:35
Chuck Spidell
Like, think about where you've been in your past and think about the points when you were working for someone else. If you're not presently a business owner, think about when you're working for someone else. Like, what did you think about or what did you want to do while you were working with another company that you knew was like, almost kind of like this project that you were ignoring and you were scared to do? You can do it now.
42:59
Erica Mattison
So it's kind of like never too.
43:00
Chuck Spidell
Old to do something.
43:01
Erica Mattison
Looking back and realizing what were the things that you were sneaking in, you were. You were really seeking out, you wanted to have them as part of your day, your week, and, you know, topics that you've returned to again and again over the years, like, what are those topics or those activities or those environment, those groups. Right. It can take a lot of different forms, but going back, reflecting on those experiences and, you know, what were the kinds of opportunities that you were really seeking out? That's what to pay a lot of attention to because there are some valuable clues there. Okay, thanks for listening, everyone. We'll talk to you next time.
43:42
Chuck Spidell
Yep, thanks for tuning in. Talk to you soon. Thanks, Erica.
43:46
Erica Mattison
Bye. Take care.
