Conversations with Erica Podcast_Jill Rafter_July 2025
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Erica Mattison: On this episode, I'm joined by Jill Rafter, a greater Boston based EdTech consultant and writer who's charting her own path as a business owner. A former coaching client of mine, Jill shares how she navigated professional transitions during her journey to become a mother. Along the way, she began building a business that reflects who she is, grounded in reflection, a clear sense of what matters most, and a willingness to put herself out there.
I'd love to start by hearing a little bit about what you've been up to lately. What's happening right now, and then we'll go into what got you to this point and things that might be coming up that you're looking forward to.
Jill Rafter: I'm enjoying summer right now. We've been having a nice easy schedule and my husband and I were just saying how nice it's been to look ahead at our calendar and it's fairly open. We haven't had a summer like that in a while.
We've got an [00:01:00] almost 18 month old son, and last summer he was so little and we were so new to parenthood, so there was a lot of stumbling and just getting through it. This summer feels a lot different. He's so interested in everything and it's been really fun to get to take him different places and see him experience all sorts of things.
And I'm able to do that because of the work I'm doing right now. A couple of years ago when I was newly pregnant with Ronan, that's our son, I started to tiptoe into consulting and working for myself and starting to think about what my own business could look like, and two years later it feels like, still evolving, but flowing really nicely and allowing me to do a lot more of the things than I ever thought I would be able to do as still a relatively new mom and still really passionate about the work that I do. It's been nice. I think that's why I was able to start with, we're enjoying summer.
[00:02:00] I really feel like that's a true statement and that feels good.
Erica Mattison: Excellent.
Congrats on your little boy. I know that was a journey to become a parent.
Jill Rafter: I'm happy to share because I seek out these kinds of stories. I certainly sought them out a couple of years ago. My husband and I went through IVF to have our son.
And, for anyone who is there or has gone through that you know that it can lead to really wonderful things, but it's really hard. It was a journey to say the least. And for me, it hit around the time I was thinking about, what do I want my professional life to look like? How can that, the way it has been, coexist with a hopeful child someday.
So that's around the time that I found you when we were going through that. I remember one of our first working sessions together, literally saying, next time we meet, I'll know if I'm pregnant or not. So, it was truly right around the same time. It's been really interesting to become a [00:03:00] new mom and experience this shift in my career at the same time .
Erica Mattison: Wonderful. Tell us a little bit about the kinds of projects, the kinds of clients, the kinds of issues that you are involved in right now.
Jill Rafter: I work in education. I always have, I started as a classroom teacher. After I left the classroom, I've worked with different educational companies in some different capacities. The work I do now is primarily with small or mid-size ed tech organizations. Some nonprofits as well.
Typically, those that are focused on youth and I primarily help them figure out how to grow. I've had a lot of experience working with startups and smaller teams and looking for ways to work more effectively as a small team.
When you've got a small group working toward a common goal, there are some great opportunities to get there quickly, but there can be a lot of stumbling [00:04:00] blocks. I'm able to come in and help my clients figure out ways to overcome them and reach goals that they have.
I work with a lot of clients on RFPs and grants. It's one way that they can grow their footprint, bring in revenue opportunities, and it's something that I find a lot of my clients, they, they know that these opportunities are out there. But they might not have the internal capacity to respond to put together a team, a structure, and a system.
For some of my clients, I'm coming in for just that part of it, to look at their team structure, the resources that they already have, and help them map out a way that they can then go forth and respond on their own. For other clients, it's been a longer relationship where I do that part of the work, but then I stay on board and I help them put those responses together.
I get to do a lot of writing and brainstorming. I always laugh because it's work that a lot of people don't really love.
I think that [00:05:00] it can be viewed as tedious or you're in the weeds. And I love that space. I love working in that way. And so it's something that I can certainly bring to those client relationships. What I love most is that once we get in there together and we're getting to know one another, other projects will open up.
I met with one of my clients this morning and they've had some shifts on their marketing team, so I'm gonna be brought in and help with some thought pieces and some blog writing and strategic thinking with the sales and the marketing team. I don't know that I could ask for a better indication that trust has been built and that, they like what I'm bringing to the table.
It's fun 'cause I love the clients I work with and so having opportunities to continue on has been really great.
Erica Mattison: It's exciting to hear you using words like flowing, fun, love -- we don't always associate those words with work or running a business or being a consultant, so [00:06:00] it's awesome to hear you using those kinds of words as you describe your work and your life.
Jill Rafter: Don't get me wrong, there are moments that I feel stressed out and deadlines pile up. I have to look at everything that's going on and make sure that it's lined up in the right way. There's so much variety in the work I do now client by client, but also that I have diversity in the clients that I work with . It's all related to a field that I'm really passionate about and it is fun to dive into a project and have a sense of i'm really getting to pull on the experiences and the expertise that I've developed and present an idea, and it's welcomed in a way that, I may be a consultant, but I am very much made to feel like I am part of the team.
That is all quite fun.
Erica Mattison: That's terrific. I know that a lot of people, when they're thinking about going out on their own, being an entrepreneur, being self-employed, they think that's going to mean that they're going to be [00:07:00] isolated, they're going to be alone, they're not going to have a team, they're gonna be lonely.
Sometimes people even do many years of consulting and that is their experience. And then they want to shift away from that because it doesn't feel good to them. They want to be part of a team. So it's great to hear that you are feeling so connected and part of teams. Could you say a little bit more about that?
Jill Rafter: Yeah, it was something that I thought a lot about before I really dove into this and committed. the community of other consultants and freelancers that I've met is awesome. There's so many professionals out there who are thrilled to talk about how are you mapping this out and what's been your approach to this type of work with a new client? Or, Hey, I know this is something that you're doing. I just had a meeting with a prospective client. It's not a fit, but they're looking for what you do. There's a lot of goodwill there.
That's been really fun. [00:08:00] And it's interesting. There's a different level of connection there. Because you're not submitting anything to anyone in this community for approval. You're not responsible for their performance and vice versa. It's truly connecting and learning from one another.
And so that's been something completely unexpected that I've really enjoyed and gotten a lot of fulfillment out of as a consultant. And certainly not least of all is, like I was saying, just the connections I'm still able to make with the teams that I'm working with. And. I've tended to have a main point of contact at my clients, but I get to know everybody there.
And, after a little bit of working together I'll say, are you comfortable if we break down the middle person structure here and I go directly to these other team members that's always been okay. And so you get right back into the swing of that level of teamwork.
It likely depends on the type of work you're doing, but that's been my experience.
Erica Mattison: It sounds like you've been able to shape the [00:09:00] entrepreneurial experience to match your personality, your needs, your interests, your strengths, and that being collaborative and being part of teams is something that you value.
Jill Rafter: Yeah, and that's important to me. I have found that it's easy to get caught up in how you should present things. Whether it's a proposal, an outreach and I think there's a lot of great food for thought out there but just being my true self has been what has paid off the most.
It's what I'm going to fall back into once we start working together. I am who I am. That's been something that I think has been helpful to developing those relationships with clients. I've worked with organizations where someone has left and reached back out to me when they land somewhere new.
When I was told, "I loved your output and you're so fun to work with," that made my day in the way that a really good review from a manager would have. I see these parallels [00:10:00] to life before consulting and life now.
And those moments are fun to have when I realize, yeah, that exists here too. It just might look a little different.
Erica Mattison: Receiving that feedback is something that can be really impactful.
Jill Rafter: Yeah, I mentioned things are evolving. I do still feel like I'm new to this, but I'm excited to start soliciting feedback. I do a good job at reviewing my work and my performance for myself. If anything, I lean toward a little bit overly self-critical and I think that can help in making sure I'm getting better.
But getting that feedback from a client, like I said, just as you would from a manager. I do think that remains important. And I think there's respect that comes with that. When a client sees that you're invested in that growth and you're open to that feedback. I'm looking ahead to getting a mechanism in place where I can collect that more regularly.
Erica Mattison: It can be challenging to figure out how you're going to get clients or how the business is going to work, [00:11:00] or how you're going to structure or price your services or how you're going to market your business. Can you share a little bit about what that journey has been like for you? Going back thinking a few years ago when you were just starting to think about the possibility of being self-employed. How did you make the leap to be self-employed given that there were all of these questions and unknowns? It was unfamiliar territory in many ways.
Jill Rafter: Around the time that you and I had started to work together, it was probably just a few months later, i, for the first time in my life, was laid off from my full-time job. It was this sort of monster that was always in the back of my mind, and I think you and I talked about that. I never had reason to believe based on performance, I would be laid off, but I also know that's not always in your control.
So you helped me think [00:12:00] about, okay, well let's pretend it happened. What would you do? thinking through what those steps would look like, it made it a little bit less scary.
Erica Mattison: This was a few months before there were the layoffs.
Jill Rafter: Yes. It was oddly good timing. But, one of those scenarios was I was afraid to even say it, you know, could I just be on my own? What would that look like? And I think painting a picture of that and really thinking about what it would look like, what I would do, what I would have to get ready.
I hadn't ever let myself get that far into that thinking. It's like a lot of things in life until you've done it, it felt off limits to me and it didn't after our work together because I realized that it's doing what I do in just in some different ways and once I did get laid off, I think this the big part was but there's no security that comes with consulting.
And it's like, can you [00:13:00] say that about a full-time job? And so that, that helped me say, well then I'm just gonna explore this. We're gonna see how this goes. And again, I was pregnant at the time and we had started to tour daycares and they would ask these very basic questions like, what do you need?
I had no idea what to tell them. I don't know when I need my child to start. I don't know how many days each week. It was such a strange phase of trying to figure it out. I was doing a little bit of consulting that came my way through somebody in my network. I was also interviewing for full-time positions and it was very clear to me, which felt like it would allow for me to become a mom and not feel this pressure to jump right back into things.
Starting a new job while pregnant, there's no guarantee of any sort of a decent leave. I recall knowing throughout those interview processes, this will not give me the life that I want. So I kept [00:14:00] up with consulting and it started slow. The growth at first was through one client. I was brought on to do project A and it turned into project B and C and D and then we went back to project A and it felt really good to build on that relationship.
And then I started to think, okay, I can better describe the work I'm doing. You and I had started this exercise of what would my offerings be? So then I started to look for full-time positions for the work I was doing on LinkedIn and reaching out directly to the hiring manager to say, Hey, I know you're looking for somebody full-time. I have clients I'm working with right now where they're getting to accomplish their goals through me as a consultant in a part-time manner. Would you be open to talking about that? It's hit or miss. You throw a lot out there, but a current client of mine came about that way, and that was super exciting .
It feels like the client I got all on my own, you know? There's so much to be said for [00:15:00] getting recommendations and referrals, and I will always be so appreciative of that because many of my clients have come through that way. But I have a special place for this one. It feels like I really did this.
I took the time to figure it out and finesse my presentation of myself, and we've been working together six or eight months now. It feels really good. So I guess the lesson there is don't box yourself in or don't make a decision about this is how I will get the work.
You've gotta be open to different avenues . I have been and it's been working for me.
Erica Mattison: You put yourself out there, you took some risks, you did some outreach, and you were able to position yourself as a solution to the organization's needs.
Jill Rafter: Yeah. And I know these needs exist and I think it's a matter of getting connected with the right person. If you haven't connected with the right person, asking them to connect you with the right person at their organization, [00:16:00] it's shaking this sense of, ugh, is this awkward? Am I bothering someone? No, you're trying to help someone.
The route of working with a consultant is so appealing and it is a legitimate way for especially small to mid-size organizations to get to where they're trying to get to. I have found that, people are really receptive to those conversations and exploring that.
Erica Mattison: Terrific.
When you think back to when you were at this pivot point when you were thinking about what you wanted to do next, you were considering some different options. At the time you knew that the situation you were in wasn't feeling quite right. I wanna talk a little bit about listening in. You mentioned something earlier that had to do with reflecting where you're looking at yourself and you're being critical and you're identifying opportunities for learning and growth but also [00:17:00] celebrating the wins and the progress.
So when you think about where you were a few years ago, that crossroads, can you share a little bit about the mindset shifts that you experienced and investing in yourself and how that freed you up to create this next chapter?
Jill Rafter: I immediately go back to sitting in a coffee shop and scrolling LinkedIn probably for a new job. And I was still working at the time. I think when you find yourself in that, I'm spending quite a bit of time every day to see what else is out there it's a good thing to listen to. And you popped up instead. I remember scrolling and I didn't know what I was looking for.
I felt like I loved the work I was doing, but it felt a little hodgepodge, which has served me really well today. But it was making it hard for me to figure out. I was so hung up on title, not in a way of I care about my title, but in a way of, I don't know what the job is that I should be [00:18:00] looking for .
So it made this really daunting process of job searching even more daunting because I literally didn't know where to start. But I felt like, I don't know how I'm growing. I don't, I don't know if my next few years will be here. It really felt like one of those moments of you can keep doing the same thing over and over again.
It's not getting you anywhere. Nothing's changed about your professional situation, yet you keep signing onto LinkedIn day after day thinking it's gonna change something. And the post that I came across from you was along the lines of, let's just have an initial conversation.
This is what I do, this is how I help people, and the people you helped sounded like me. So I sent you a message and in our initial conversation I probably said a lot of what I've said just now. I just don't know what to do, but what I'm doing now isn't working.
There was some pretty quick clarity after talking to you. You were able to very [00:19:00] clearly map out the ways that you helped clients get through these situations. And it wasn't you giving me any guarantee of by the end, you'll have a new job. It was much more open-ended.
The focus was on the process. I was in such desperate need of that thought partner. That was the part that I was trying to figure out by myself. We started to work together that spring and over a series of meetings and there was some thinking and some work that I did in between ,you helped me break it down.
We spent time thinking about what is your today looking like? What's working, what's not? Where do you find yourself going? And it was so helpful to me. My life looked very different then, but it ended up being the pre-work for where I've landed. You mentioned the scenario work. That is what I remember most when I look back on our time together because it helped me make decisions. We even got to a point where [00:20:00] it's like the scariest one, the one that had the least certainty, it was the one I kept going back to because it held the promise of a happier life. And that's where I am. And I'm pretty happy I would say, all things considered.
Erica Mattison: Yes, there's been quite a transformation in you in the past few years, and it's been such an honor to get to be on that journey with you, to support you and to observe you and see how you've been able to remain true to yourself.
You have done the necessary work so that you could create a life that supports you to be true to yourself. And that really involved moving through fear. There were a lot of fears, as there are with most people, much of the time.
Could you say a little bit about the kinds of fears that you were having back then and what enabled you to move through those and even really lean into them? [00:21:00] You said the scariest option that we talked about was the one that you were really gravitating toward, and ultimately that played out.
Your life is quite beautiful today. So could you share a little bit about the fears that you needed to work through?
Jill Rafter: There are a couple categories of fears, and again, something that I wanna acknowledge is the reality of earning an income. It's not the case for many people that they can say, I'm resigning and I'm just gonna go at it on my own and we'll see how it goes.
Most people have rent to pay or a mortgage to pay. So that part was a very real piece that, my husband and I spend a lot of time talking about. He is gainfully employed and we are a household where we both contribute to that household income. And it's important that that continue in the long run.
I am super lucky that I was able to jump onto his health insurance. That's such a real thing that I know from my conversations with friends and [00:22:00] family that holds people back. So I had that on my side. I. But we talked about, okay, let's look at the numbers and what would your invoices to your clients on a monthly basis need to add up to?
What's the minimum and the maximum? What would be an amazing month? What would be, okay? Doesn't feel as amazing, but like you hit that number. Those are some really honest conversations that we had to have and it made this. This just no in my mind become a, oh no, actually there's, there are numbers to this.
It doesn't have to be a no. So that was a really interesting and really important step to take. So that was part of it. And it did dispel this fear of as a consultant, I won't earn enough to match what I'm earning. So that was something that we had to tackle right off the bat and okay. That was the first hurdle and we got over that.
My husband was not only supportive in that conversation, but has continued to [00:23:00] be. I really appreciate his confidence in me. I don't wanna give the impression that I had fears and now they're gone and now I'm doing this.
I definitely still have them and they creep back in. So having a support system I've got friends and family who cheer me on too. That has been really important. I went through some thinking around career trajectory, and I had steady career growth over the last several years.
I felt it was reasonable to assume that I would continue that growth. I don't know if or when I would ever feel like, okay, now the right thing for me is to work for one organization full time. I may get back there at some point. I absolutely see the value in the work I do and how that would not be seen as, oh, you took a step back or you stopped working. There are a lot of very strategic conversations that I'm involved with and I meet with executive leadership teams regularly.
So worries I might have had [00:24:00] about losing access to that, from a mentoring perspective, from a learning perspective, that has not been the case and that's been really exciting. And if anything, I would imagine I'd be quite a desirable candidate thinking about the diversity in industry and organization that I've played a part in, but I don't think a lot about returning to that type of work right now. So, that is something that I try to remind myself of, if those worries about that creep in it's just not for today. I don't have to spend energy on that today. I think the fears of being full-time and missing out on my son were greater than anything else, and it's the reason why I could feel in my gut, I wasn't seriously considering the job offers I got toward the middle and end of my pregnancy. Those were the scenarios that made me feel pretty down so I feel good that I trusted my gut in those situations and knocked those fears out.
Erica Mattison: Sounds like a lot of the [00:25:00] things that you were perceiving as weaknesses or threats you were able to shift and they are actually strengths and opportunities in many cases.
Jill Rafter: Yeah, absolutely. I often will go through the what if activity and it that helps me so much when I'm having a moment where I just revert back to this place of afraid to take a risk or afraid to trust that what's working today will continue working.
I really go through that activity. And most of the time land in, okay, I'd be okay. I'd have to figure some things out, but I'd be okay. My family will be okay. And I also try to look at the range and the work I've done month to month. I look at a quieter month, but think about all the extra time that I had to be with my family and, and honestly for myself, we have gotten into a rhythm over the last few months where my son is in daycare three days a week, and I work on [00:26:00] those three days and the two days that he's not in daycare, I'm all his and I love that.
On the daycare days, if I'm really efficient and I'm able to get what I need to get done, I can return a couple things that have been sitting on the counter. I love to do food prep, so I can chop up a bunch of veggies and get those ready for the day and I can read a book, or catch up on a show.
And that is really important too. So again, the fears end up being these benefits. I think that's really important, that perspective. 'cause I could look at a month where I had time to do all of those things and instead focus on Yeah, but I worked like 10 hours fewer than I did the month before.
But man, oh man, was there a lot of value in those 10 hours that I got back for myself and for my family. And that is a big lesson in this. I'm only a few years in, but I feel like you'll drive yourself into the ground. If you look at it as every, you've gotta look at a little bit of a bigger picture.
No, you're not getting the same paycheck every two weeks . [00:27:00] So taking a step back and maybe looking at it quarterly, I think is just a little bit better for my mental health . And it helps me enjoy the quieter times.
Erica Mattison: Looking at your life holistically, I'm getting the sense that not only are things going well in terms of your business and continuing to explore what it is for you to show up authentically but you're also getting to explore what it looks like to really be present with your family, to take care of yourself and to enjoy the moment. . You are really taking advantage of those slower moments to take care of things in, your life.
And by pacing yourself in that way, you are creating a more sustainable, not only business, but also broader lifestyle.
Jill Rafter: Yeah, I mean, you said it perfectly. When you and I started work together, we thought about this scenario in a way, but I couldn't have quite imagined how it all [00:28:00] would've felt at that time.
I do feel lucky, even though these were choices I made. There are sort of systems and supports in place that helped me make some of these choices. There are a lot of days where I look around and I'm like, what if I hadn't made these choices I wouldn't have had this day.
With my son, it's every day, you won't get it back. They grow and change so quickly and I think he and any other future children might be able to have, get to see that their parents work really closely together to make sure that their needs are met and that they feel loved and that they have a mom who is working and doing really well there and keeping a focus on her career and is also able to be really present for them.
I know how hard that is for so many parents. And for me, I just felt like the way to do that is the way I've chosen. [00:29:00] I'm super grateful for that.
Erica Mattison: Gratitude is definitely a feeling that I get as I'm hearing you share... gratitude for this life that you've created, and there have been a lot of decisions along the way.
You have had to take some risks. You have had to believe in yourself and your ability to figure things out and to recover and be adaptable so that when there are bumps in the road it's not the end of the world. It's simply a bump in the road that you can get past.
Jill Rafter: I think something I try to remind myself is for every scenario I might catch myself imagining about the challenges, it could be around the corner it could be the opposite. I've had experiences where this great referral comes in, and within a few weeks I'm like deep into a new project, and that's what I need to be thinking about sometimes too. It's like anytime I catch myself thinking, what if this all goes away? I do think it's important to counter that with, okay, [00:30:00] but what if something else great comes along? And it's not to put your guard down, but it's just to remind yourself of the reality of things can go well just as much as they can go poorly. So keeping that in mind is something else I try to do.
Pretty actively. Again, I still work on all of this.
Erica Mattison: Checking that negativity bias is really important. I'm curious, as you think about what's next, any kinds of projects or clients or professional development that you are excited about for the next few months or even years?
Jill Rafter: I'm excited to take a look back at a lot of the work I've done this summer and put together some writings on that to show prospective clients this is what a relationship would look like if we were to start working together. What I really am always trying to do is focus on an outcome. I can help you grow and meet a goal and there are a lot of different ways that we can get there together. So [00:31:00] thinking about that I think is actually another really important piece to be focused on when it's a little bit quieter. Okay, let's get to know some new people and some new clients. I'm excited to continue thinking about, what are some tools and systems I can look into to make some of the more administrative pieces of my work a little bit easier. I don't think you can have all of that figured out at the very beginning. And so you jump in and you and I have talked about this and you've recommended some tools to check out, what's a really efficient tool for invoicing clients and how do you track your time when you're working in this way?
Erica Mattison: I know about a whole bunch of new ones now than several months ago.
Jill Rafter: Good, right.
Erica Mattison: So we'll have another conversation about that. Business tools, systems and everything. That'll be another episode.
Jill Rafter: You could do a whole episode on that 'cause your needs are changing and sometimes you have to do things for a few months to figure out what's not working.
But then the tools that are available are also changing all the time too. So that's something to keep an eye on.
Right now, short [00:32:00] term, I'm excited to enjoy the summer and kind of keep up with everything. And I think when we get into the fall, do a little bit of a retrospective on the work I've done and how do I get this to the next level? I have some goals that I keep in mind about, how many clients am I working with at any given point in time, the nature of the projects I do, what feels the best? Thinking about that, what I wanna really carry forward?
I appreciate this opportunity because I do think so much about, becoming a new parent and trying to navigate this and feeling like, I either work or I don't. And in some cases neither is right. For me it was helpful to see some examples of different versions of those options and some options in between those two.
So being able to share a little bit about what this has looked like for me, I really appreciate you, connecting with me and giving me this chance to share my story a little [00:33:00] bit.
Where a lot of this started is I love writing. And so, can I do a little weekly series that talks about lessons as a mom and as a consultant, because there's so many parallels. There's so many things that I experience with Ronan and I laugh at how much it reminds me of something that I've experienced with a client or with a project that I was working on.
Those are some things that I think about. It feels like another phase of the work.
Erica Mattison: On that note I remember that you love writing and I share your love of writing. I'm gonna put you on the spot and ask you when it feels like the time is right, what is a specific small next step that you feel you will take, that will get you closer to where you wanna be in terms of having writing be a really present part of your day-to-day life?
Jill Rafter: I think it's the beginnings of a plan. It's picking something. And so that's something could be, what would I title the [00:34:00] newsletter or when will the first newsletter go out?
These are some things that we did together too, and you encouraged me, like, get a draft to your sisters. Again, it's not this binary thing like it's either you never post it or it goes out to everybody on your LinkedIn feed, so picking an element of it and committing to that element.
That lesson, it reaches to so many different things in life. Just start. It doesn't have to look like what it's gonna look like in three or six months. But it's better than nothing.
Erica Mattison: Right. So you just said, you don't have to have it all figured out to start.
And what I'll point out is that you said that you need to do some planning . I know you can be super analytical and I know that really comes in handy for the kind of work that you're doing . But I wanna push you a little, Jill, and I wanna invite you to give yourself permission to just write something and share it and see how it feels. Then, learn and grow and adapt from there.
Jill Rafter: I like that [00:35:00] because I certainly have an hour a week. And it doesn't have to be a novel, just getting a few ideas out. So I appreciate that. And you're right, I contradicted myself right there. I'll make a plan to start someday is the same as saying, "I'd like to do this someday."
Erica Mattison: There is a phrase I like to share with people, which I feel is appropriate right now. What are you waiting for?
Jill Rafter: I don't need to wait. I feel that sense of joy just thinking about being able to share some of these thoughts so I appreciate the push.
Erica Mattison: Absolutely. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story. I am delighted for all the learning and growth that is taking place, how you've really invested in yourself. You've taken risks and you're continuing to figure it out, and as you said, see what feels the best. Keep it up. I look forward to continuing to share and learn together. Any closing words?
Jill Rafter: I so appreciate you. [00:36:00] You were a huge part of this, giving me a lot of the tools and the confidence that I needed to get going. And so I appreciate having you as a coach and a friend and a colleague.
Erica Mattison: Thanks for those positive words, Jill. I appreciate them. It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much again for your time.
Jill Rafter: Appreciate you, Erica.
